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The ME-262 had a short endurance in the air. Mustangs swarming the airbases were very successful against the jets during take off and landings

Interesting...but would a plane as profoundly flawed as the Me 262 really have been able to accomplish that much in the grand scheme of things had the Germans produced tens of thousands of the jets and had enough pilots capable to fly them? Captain Eric Brown, RN seems to indicate the Me 262 would have changed the course of the war in his famous television interview, but his description of how the jet had to be operated in combat makes it clear the 262's effectiveness outside of long, high speed attack runs at high altitude was questionable. Naturally taking off at full thrust, the Luftwaffe pilot would gingerly retard the thrust levers to climb thrust for fear of flaming out the engines with any aggressive movement of the thrust levers. This forced Me 262 pilots to climb far above the 25,000 ft altitude the Allied bombers normally operated at (in all air-breathing aircraft engines maximum continuous thrust will match the requirements to only maintain straight and level unaccelerated flight...in the Me 262 this was well in excess of 35,000 ft), and launch high speed dashing attacks from above with only two seconds to line up on a target for fear of retarding the thrust levers, the limited effective range of the low-velocity Mk 108 30mm cannons, and the 262's lack of dive brakes. This led to the German jet pilots to devise a strategy to slice through the bomber formations and pull up to bleed off the excess airspeed and attack from below the bomber stream. After running out of ammunition (or running low on fuel) would the pilot finally risk retarding the thrust levers, i.e. in order to land. In effect, the Me 262 was a very fast heavy fighter, with a mission profile more similar to the Me 110 than the Me 109. In sufficient numbers Me 262 pilots might have been able to put enough of a dent in the 8th and 15th Air Forces (and Bomber Command if the German jets incorporated radar) to call off the Combined Bomber Offensive...but only if Spaatz and Harris did not do the obvious and drop the raiding altitude down to Fighter Command's, 9th and 12th Air Force's attack altitudes. Flak was far more effective at Ploesti Raid altitudes, but Me 262 dash attacks would be far more difficult to accomplish. For one, avoiding impacting the ground would become a major issue and retarding the thrust levers would become necessary due issues with airspeed limits, risking flameouts a low altitude. Moreover the 262's swept wings were optimized for high altitude, high speed flight where piston-powered fighters are far less maneuverable due to stall speed increasing with altitude...at Ploesti altitudes Allied fighters would get their maneuverability back and be far more formidable foes. There is a common conceit that jet fighters immediately outclassed all piston-engined combat aircraft after the combat debut of the Me 262, conveniently overlooking that piston-powered attack aircraft remained in front-line service for at least another 30 years--the A-1 Skyraider first flew in 1945, yet was unparalleled at delivering ordnance against North Korean and North Vietnamese ground forces, with the USAF, USMC and USN using the venerable 25-year old attack aircraft right up to the American exit in 1973. When Saigon fell two years later over 300 A-1s were still flying for the RVNAF along with over a score of AC-47s, the American gunship/CAS conversion of the WWII transport aircraft. The Me 262 was a niche weapon, with questionable utility outside of the high altitude heavy fighter role. It certainly was a better replacement for the Me 110 than the 210 or 410, but in no way could supplant the Me 109 or Fw 190 in versatility (and perhaps would have been a poor replacement if pushed into the air superiority role). If deployed in large numbers, the Me 262 likely would have led the Gloster to ramp up Meteor production for the RAF and the Americans to speed up Lockheed's production of the P-80 and rush deployment to the USAAF while supplying the American jet to Fighter Command through Lend-Lease. As such, the likely Allied response to massed Me 262s would be MiG Alley with disastrous Luftwaffe effects...

Absolutely wonderful place

If they had the supply on nickel and crome it could of been a war winner

"And for all their bravery and all their sacrifice, the "allies" would sell the Poles and their country to the soviets for 30 pieces of silver. Never have so many been betrayed by so few for so little. May GOD forgive us." -- Col Radcliff

Pierre Klosterman wrote in "The Big Show" that Typhoon pilot's lungs suffered by constant oxygen use.

“Nothing flying over Europe that could touch it” only if both engines were working properly and that wasn’t actually a given was it? With one engine out it’s speed was seriously compromised as was it’s handling and with the woeful quality of the first generation German jet engines there was a good chance that the 262 was going to be compromised.

I think the 262's superiority (speed advantage) over any and all Allied fighters is overstated. Those are top-speed comparisons, of course, which is not a very realistic basis for judgments on overall performance differences in actual combat situations. The 262 regardless could be caught by diving Allied fighters, and was very shoot-down-able all things considered.

The cannon were lethal*, but as WW2 US bombers pointed out on his channel, their rate of fire and relatively low muzzle velocity** were problematic, especially when combined with the problems with the engines and the lack of dive brakes that resulted in very high closing speeds. I think Eric Brown estimated that the pilot had two seconds to aim and fire his cannons. * His latest video covers how effective the FW190 weapons were as the war progressed, and he has already covered the effectiveness of German weapons against US bombers. ** He also contrasts the ballistics of the rounds of the MK108 with the .50 calibre carried on US bombers.

i think what he said was right a wooden penis with lights on with his medal on the shaft. basically saying that if he thinks we are cowards then that is what the medal is worth.

I do think the Hitler stoped me winning the war thing has been massively overplayed by the many commanders who re-wrote the war to present themselves in a far better light than they maybe deserved. Far easier to blame mad man Hitket as Tik Histiry terms it. So we would have had thousands of 262 without Hitler is I think a real contrivance of those who failed. Also - if needed the Meteor could have easily been moved to front line service and while of course both airframes had prose and cons the reality was the airspace was not open for a complete domination by the 262.

If only the question of fuel didn't need to come up. Whole campaign was about fuel. Oh dear.

Lets imagine that it became operational in 1943 , the allies wouldn't sit back and say thats it the war is lost. No ! Jet designs already on the drawing board would be pushed through with greater urgency. The De Havilland Vampire was being developed from 1941 , the old adage , necessity is the mother of invention may well of applied. Fact is the allies never saw the Me 262 as a serious threat against winning the war. I mentioned the Vampire as an example , because I sat in the cockpit of one when I was a boy . Single engine amazingly small , would have been easier and cheaper to produce over the Meteor .

It's just banter, the British doing this to each other for donkeys years. When l was learning to drive in 1981 my instructor had been an air gunner on Lancaster, as a 17 year old lad it impressed me to be with such a man.

Apparently, the small wings worked in the earlier stages. But when the Germans turned to bombing attacks on London, the Big Wings worked more effectively.

meh "what could have beens". the heinkel he280 could have been in theory in service even earlier. then again what if the british air ministry had taken frank whittle seriously and we started WW2 with a fleet of DH vampires instead of hurricanes and spitfires? either way, the german engines had a lifespan of 25hrs. as others pointed out, had things gone any other way - berlin would have been the 1st target for a nuclear strike. there is no scenario where germany wins. also what if that clown mallory had not put a stop to the long range spitfire project. and what if harris instead of having a woody for bombing berlin with little success because the raf accuracy was +/- 30 miles instead focused on supporting and covering for the RN, the army and also merchant shipping. a lancaster with extra fuel tanks and depth charges would have been very nice addition while they practiced their navigation skills and technologies.

P 47, over 7000 kills, Mustang fewer than 5000. The top 10 highest scoring P 47 pilots survived the war. The Supermarine Spitfire is second to the Hawker Hurricane in the Battle of Britain. Likewise, the Thunderbolt was more important than the Mustang. It proved in other theaters that it could have flown from England to Berlin and back. It was faster tougher and better than the Mustang.

Park and Dowding's strategies won the B of B. 12 Groups big wings weren't getting over 11 Groups airspace in time and weren't getting a significant number of kills.

The two six two has been properly put in its place. It was rushed and it was crap.

A quiet Kiwi saves the British Empire !

Look, no single weapon is ever going to be a war winning weapon, and the 262 was no exception nor was it ever claimed to be. Btw, you need to look up how German claims were validated, it was very strict, witnessed and the evidence was on the ground.

Leigh-Mallory was the biggest shit in the RAF. Lost many good pilots in his crap fighter sweeps over Europe for no strategic gain what so ever. Side lined for D-Day as he was a total arse. Didn’t even have the decency to get himself killed in combat but died when the transport he was travelling in crashed. No one was bothered .

When i saw the fighters over Berlin , i knew the war was lost. H. Goering .

Am I correct that RAF bomber command was the only UK military outfit that did not get a campaign or WW" medal/commendation? I'm sure I read in a book (Max Hastings?) RAF Fighter command, transport command, coastal command, The Royal Navy did as did the Army but Churchill tried to deflect blame for the infamous Dresden and cologne Firestorms a result of RAF night bombings - although I was told that both those targets were indeed targeted by the USAAF? Bomber Harris was left to shoulder the blame, Disgrace, and guilt! These were indeed terrible events but 43,000 Londoners, alone were killed in an 8 month period during the Blitz not to mention Most UK cities suffered too with smaller cities such as Bristol and even Swansea having their own mini Blitz! In fact the centre of Swansea today are all Post WW2 Buildings as the original city centre was devastated by the Luftwaffe! Its Also worth mentioning that Night Bombing was so hated by the German population, that many poor RAF Crew that had to bail out over German cities at Night were literally Killed by the Mob whose city had been the Target of the unfortunate crewman in question! I agree this is a many faceted topic with many 'subjective' viewpoints and it can be difficult to be 'objective' and dispel long held beliefs even in the face of hard data!

I have seen one(a replica i believe) seen flying at Berlin air show some years ago

The Allies had absolutely nothing comparable to the Me-262... it is the most revolutionary aircraft in history since the Wright Flyer and rendered all piston engine fighters completely obsolete.

Stupid commentary with no purpose or relevance.

F6F3 and 5. Oh sorry. Thought you were talking about the whole war. Britain and the Second World War. The perpetually myopic view of the Brits. If you are not going to view the whole war, then how about the far east. The invisible second "front". Come on lads!

If the Germans had me 262s the British would have deployed / put a higher priority on there jet fighters

Sorry! But you think very strangely. Of course, the war had only been prolonged, but the US was close to being forced to stop bombing during the day and if the Me262 came earlier, its development would also have come earlier, with air brakes for shorter approaches and other things. Which also meant that the P51 did not have as easy a shot down the Me262 as they now had. This was a very sloppy video made by someone who obviously only sees the US as too superior, which was also wrong. The losses of US pilots would perhaps have increased greatly and tactics would have been forced to change so that everything you describe looked completely different. You show a very simple scenario which is completely wrong. Everyone knows that the only way for the P51 to be able to shoot down an Me 262 with a high degree of certainty was to do so as they came in for landing. And even that decreases with more Me 262s in the air.... So there are many more factors than the ones you mention... You are not a historian, or maybe you are a very bad one.

Galland said it could have stopped the daylight bomber offensive....he didn't say it could have won the war. Can you imagine Schweinfurt scale losses on a continual basis? They would have switched to night like the Brits.

Caliban, we can agree that Adolf Galland is a pretty compromised source, he had a serious "it wasn't me!" issue to resolve. Agreed, no number of 262s would've 'won' the war, basic logistical & personnel reasons trumped how good it was. No pilots or groundcrew, no fuel, no precious metals - it really didn't matter after '43. Theoretically still possible last ditch types, like the Me163, He163 (or Hetzer/Pz38T), were great ideas but underdone & 'rather late'. Thanks. _Willy was as bad as Porsche imo._

Little of this mattered. the ME262 might have been able to stop day bombing, it would have done little to stop night bombing. Given the number of Tempests and Mustangs the allies could field and proximity fuzes for AA arty, the Germans were not going to stop Overlord.

Mozzie...and I'm American...the speed and payload are undeniable...happy 4th!!

B-17, every time. It's a question of operational ceiling. The B-17 would simply keep my precious carcass 10,000 feet further above the flak and fighters. Cheers!

Ive recently heard that the engines of the 262 were only good for 8 hours of operation before they needed a complete overhaul. Given that statistic, we see the 262 as a prototype, one thrown into combat maybe a year or two before it was ready...also, Adolph Galland ....maybe didnt always tell the whole truth....J/S

the 262 was sort of the tiger tank of the sky, to complex, a gas hog, and VERY unreliable , operationally they were way overrated. it would have took around 3000 finished 262s to send 700 or so to battle. its engines were intended to make a 100 hour tbo , that was cut to 25 hours TBO and ended up being 8-12 hours then junk -- its the worst i have ever heard of, even ww1 era engines lasted longer and as the engines aged in their 12 hour lifespan the thrust was dropping like a rock

In his book, he states that his Knights Cross was stolen.

The British would have sent the plans for the Gloster Meteor to the US and 4 months later the yanks would have shipped enough of them to the UK for the RAF to have shot every ME262 out of the sky making it safe for Liberators and B17s.

Ah, contrived and fictional math. ;) If you change some parts of history, change all of it including the training, and make it work.

As much as we love to glamorize the fighters. The facts are that AA batteries were far more effective per resources expended. EVEN if the 262 had prolonged the war it would not have prolonged the Manhattan project or a million salty soviets from invading. The real lesson of WW2 in the end was that small countries do not have the manpower or resources to fight continent spanning superpowers although nobody really fathomed what that meant at the time.

Harry Ricardo is considered the top engine designer and developer of his time. However he was incredibly keen on sleeve valves. These never worked well and added enormous complexity to already complex machines.

It was a potent bomber destroyer that escorting fighters could not cope with. Such an aircraft might have been useful to Britain in 1940 because any invader needed total air supremacy in order for their Invasion fleet to cross the English Channel. But in 1943, Germany was losing a land war, and a high speed short range bomber destroyer really wasn't going to change that.

5.00 A"conventional jet" engine does not need air forced in,it sucks in the air,just as it sucks unwary ground crews.